Thursday, May 20, 2010

Financing apostles (2)

The church in America today invests billions in buildings and programs. What did the early church invest in? And, how do we return to those values? Take a look at the video below and comment.

John


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7 comments:

  1. MarkMay 21, 2010 at 6:34 AM

    80 MILLION DOLLARS!?!?! Sounds like a scene out of an Austin Powers movie.

    I like the 9:11 question - "Isn't it appropriate if I've invested in you spiritually, that you invest in me financially?"

    Releasing an army -- it is only possible if the many see the value of the few - those that have been gifted with specific gifts to operate apostolically. This seems right from an economic perspective - money given for services rendered, but does it strangle a movement of the many for favor of the few? It sure seems like we perpetuate the sense that the many "pay their dues" so the few can do all the work. This is the situation of many churches today.

    Believe me John, I really want what you describe in your video - apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists, teachers...all being supported financially so that they can under gird a people-movement with spiritual nurture and vision...I want to believe it because I'm trying to actively live into it personally...not just because I believe in it for theological reasons, but because my light bill depends on it! :) But help me know that we are not perpetuating the same system of edifice-complexes and CEO-making. How can we as you say, "offer the new mindset" to the church?

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  2. JaceMay 21, 2010 at 7:37 AM

    I think it helps, too, to think of the apostle as being someone who is an expression of goodness sent from the church. An ambassador on behalf of the Christ and on behalf of the body of Christ, sent to do work that not everyone can do.

    It's not that we focus on the uniqueness of the apostle, but on the fact that s/he best expresses the interests and personality of the church and is able to communicate those things well to others.

    That may be a shift of focus some need to be able to finance apostles without thinking they are giving up the principle of decentralization.

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  3. JaceMay 21, 2010 at 7:56 AM

    I think that we could tweek some of the tentmaking models. Right now it's hard to find a job that is worth putting 20 hours into that can actually help a church planter/coach/apostle survive.

    One of the most disturbing and defining moments for me was when I graduated from a Bible school. There were tons of ministry majors in the 1000 strong graduating class. 2 of these were missions majors. I was one of the two. That made me think long and hard about our need for good blended funding models, and I've been doing heavy research into kingdom business and business as mission expressions.

    Maybe those who are business oriented could think of some ways that those 20 hours of "non apostle" work could be worth the time. I'm working on a sales and distribution model right now.

    We'll see what God wants, though. He may not want us to invent this kind of stuff.

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  4. John WhiteMay 21, 2010 at 8:20 AM

    Mark - I sure appreciate your wrestling with this difficult issue. And, of course, there is no ironclad guarantee that we won't fall back into the old ways. "But help me know that we are not perpetuating the same system of edifice-complexes and CEO-making."

    What gives me courage is that both Jesus (Lk. 10:7) and Paul (1 Cor. 9) believed it (financing apostles) could and should be done. I'll send you an article I wrote on 1 Cor. 9. See what you think.

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  5. John WhiteMay 21, 2010 at 8:38 AM

    Jace - Thanks for jumping in on this discussion. Love to hear more of what you are doing. Shoot me an email. DenverWH@aol.com

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  6. desi starrMay 21, 2010 at 3:35 PM

    i came across an article of a church fellowship pledging $115 toward a building campaign in dallas.
    check it out here-http://ht.ly/1Oo0S

    how did we get this far out there?

    john, i think this is so needed and i think people are waking up to this.
    as this is presented not in a legalistic way but rather as an experiment. let's see what happens when the church planter/apostolic worker puts His trust in God for his provision rather than supporters and the supporters ask the Lord what they should invest in someone who has invested in them.

    good stuff.
    hey john, maybe you should post your paper on 1 Cor 9 on here sometime.

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  7. Peg in NMMay 22, 2010 at 8:35 AM

    I have struggled -- and resisted -- this concept for many years, not knowing how to deal with the issue of financially supporting leaders in ministry. I know, and have known, so many people who want to be "leaders",
    "pastors", "apostles" and all want to be supported financially. As it says in Proverbs, "many a man proclaims his own loyalty, but a trustworthy man, who can find?" Who supports whom? But as God is increasing my work for Him, I'm finding I have less and less time to focus on my job, and have more and more of a burden to help establish His Kingdom on earth. I've been a tentmaker all my life. How do I make the transition to being supported by others? I sense God is moving me in that direction, but I have to get over myself first, then allow Him to work it out with the others. Thanks for bringing up this topic, John & Kent. I still struggle with it. Maybe I'll find some answers this summer in our discussions... and coaching!

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