My sense is that we need to camp on the topic of CO2s for a bit at this point. Noah Cremisino (now in New Zealand) commented on the "Four Generations" post that he had shared CO2 with his simple church in Denver (before he left) but that he didn't think anyone had continued with it. Then, Noah wrote, "This is obviously not the end, but I think in "the right hands" it's a powerful tool."
I believe Noah is exactly right. A CO2 isn't for everyone. Because, you see, this isn't Christianity as most Americans have experienced it.
But, when you find the right people. God prepared people. People hungry for heart-level intimacy with God and others. When you find those people, some amazing things are about to happen!
Kent Smith responses to Noah along these same lines...
I'd like to reflect on Noah's good observation, "in the right hands, it's a powerful tool."
CO2 is a simple--and powerful--way to pay attention to 3 realities most people know little about and rarely notice, namely:
1) Our own hearts (what—sure enough—we really want)
2) God’s heart (what God really wants)
3) The hearts of others (what others really want)
A major reason these realities are little known or pursued is because we have been systematically taught that, a) what we really want is dangerous or just doesn’t matter, and that, b) what God really wants beyond generic truth is—practically speaking—just guesswork on our part.
Under those convictions it’s no wonder that a set of disciplines focused on listening deeply to God and people seems a royal waste of time or worse.
True knowledge, that is to say, intimacy, comes only to those who believe in it, want it, and doggedly pursue it. For such people, the rhythms of attention in CO2 can be transformational, and for that reason, highly transferable.
From my perspective, those would be “the right hands.”
Your thoughts?
John
My first thought about wrong hands would be a wrong heart. Someone who wants to manipulate God and others would not be a person that I would like to see with CO2.
ReplyDeleteAn indication of wrong hands may be wrong timing. There are some who are not ready for the disciplines. The parable of the soils comes to mind. Seeds that are quickly choked out, seeds that never get in the soil and are stolen, seeds that are in shallow soil that are never able to take root.
Personally, I have felt guarded against those who don't really think it possible to listen to God in that way. Why give pearls to swine?
Those are my initial thoughts. I can't wait to hear all of yours :)
Old habits die hard... sounds like a job for our old friend: Alternate Story!
ReplyDeleteTurns out you CAN hear God clearly and He just may have planted some really important seeds deep in your heart in the form of DESIRES... and that's a GREAT THING!!
Let's tell THAT story over and over until the old one dies a tragic death.
Hobby, I agree with you that the parable of the soils is especially relevant here. Of course, you can't always tell about the soil ahead of time. Sometimes you have to sow the seed and see what happens. With CO2 you can do this by offering to do it with someone for just a week and see how they respond. Usually you know by then if they are good soil.
ReplyDeleteAgreed with all! I like to remind myself of how choosy Jesus was about his disciples, and how high He set the bar of discipleship - to each he basically asked them to leave the thing that mattered to them most or that had the strongest hold on them... and most did not make that cut - but I love how he put the ball in their court, and let them self-select. He set the bar high - but not high in a carnal, soulical, or wordly way - high in regards to self-sacrifice. He didnt look for the brightest or smartest, but the ones who were willing to leave all to follow Him - we should do the same I think.
ReplyDeleteNot currently working with anyone willing to go the distance? Keep praying for those ones - and keep looking!
Also, anyone was allowed to follow Jesus, but not everyone was allowed to get His individual time and attention, and truly be a disciple, but the ones willing to leave all... Lets not condemn those not ready to leave all - they can still be a part of the crowd (their time may come 10 years from now) - but lets with love invest our time and ministry in those ready NOW.
ReplyDeleteGreat reminder, Artman81! Just because someone isn't ready today doesn't mean they won't be ready in a month or a year.
ReplyDeleteArman81,
ReplyDeleteI think that is so important to discern who is ready hear at the present time. I stay in touch with many people here, but I have to descide who are my priorities. Not to say God isn't interested in them, but I just don't have resources to invest. It has been an encouragement to wait even weeks for some of my friends, continue in prayer for them, and then they return and say they are ready. It puts them into God's hands to do the work in their hearts that I can't do. But some have come back and have been a real joy to work with. No battles, long discussions, convincing on my part (doesn't work anyway, right?), and allowing the Holy Spirit to do His work so I can do mine.
Great topics these days! Thanks.
Its good to connect again with you all here. I apologize for losing the thread of conversation for the last few days, but am catching back up now I hope.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things I'm thinking here is how there seems to be so much resistence to living out a CO2 relationship day in and day out over the long term. I'm convinced the enemy is part of this resistence.
I also think it requires hard work and perseverance to be consistently in touch with my own heart and the heart of God...and to consistently connect with others at this level.
I think a person has to be convinced that the practices really are powerful. I've heard the saying for years: "When we say 'yes' to one thing, we are saying 'no' to others." I think until a person grasps how central these practices are to life transformation and spiritual health, they seem like just more good ideas to tack on; but because of so many other commitments, they won't be able to consistently say 'yes' to this one.
My feeling on this is scatter the seed far and wide and see what grows and where. Like Peg says, there isn't time to spend cajoling and persuading and it doesn't work anyway!
ReplyDeleteWisdom demands sowing and tending what grows. Yahshua told his fisher disciples, 'Follow me and I will make you people fishers'. Perhaps he says to farmer disciples, 'Follow me and I'll make you people farmers'.
The important part is the idea of following, isn't that why we need to listen? How can we follow if we haven't heard? CO2 is so good for that. When we listen he will take what we already know to do (fish, farm,...) and build on it. Praise him!
I was very interested this morning to spot these old notes from a meeting we had almost a year ago. I was amazed and encouraged to read those notes. What do you see here that might be relevant to what we're discussing now, a year later on MRT?