Many thanks for all of your help with a "tag line" for LK10! You've given us a lot to chew on. We'll let you know what we come up with.Here's a great question from Noah Cremisino (Noah - tell us how your early days in New Zealand are going.)
"My question is - how is CO2 similar to and different from what we would call "Discipleship"? Is there a "step 2" for CO2 that leads to discipleship of some kind?"
This is an excellent question for the whole MRT Community. You may also want to discuss it in your local MRT. I'll add a couple of related questions...
What was Jesus' "discipleship program"? How did he know what to teach His disciples? What was He discipling them into? Does any of this relate to CO2s?
Looking forward to your insights on this!
John
What is a disciple? I sometimes prefer the term 'apprentice' or even the more modern word 'trainee', but I think 'apprentice' is closer to the core meaning.
ReplyDeleteAn apprentice lived with the master's family, eating and sleeping in the family home. He would work alongside the master every day, initially watching and doing mundane jobs like sweeping the floor and making cups of tea.
The master craftsman would give him small jobs to do and praise or criticise the results of the work. As the apprentice grew in skill and understanding he would be given more and more challenging tasks.
CO2 is paying attention to the master and to one another.
Apprenticeship is watching the master at work, listening to what he says, and sharing in the work as he allows.
So I'd say that CO2 could form a valuable part of the apprenticeship (discipleship) process, but it's not discipleship in itself because it lacks the 'doing' aspect and is mostly about listening.
Listening is important and is the first step in discipleship.
I'm looking forward to lots of comment on this topic.
Yeah...
ReplyDeleteUPDATE: Arrived in Christchurch, NZ just over a month ago and taking awhile to get settled (ie. used to driving on the other side of the road, different food items, cultural nuance, etc.)
I have met with 3 different men who are either involved with our pursuing simple church ideas in the city and have discovered quite a bit of disconnect in terms of approach, ideals, methods, etc.
Generally speaking, the city of Chch is NOT one where a unified vision of Christ glorified and the Kingdom growing exists. There is a mind-blowing amount of individual church projects, each with their own agenda - but no sense of "togetherness".
Even with the amount of "good things" churches are doing individually in the city, the church population is STILL steadily decreasing... which seems to indicate a HUGE disconnect between the church and the common culture (this being a normal thing in probably EVERY western city in the world). The odd part though, is that in Christchurch the churches are very visible -- much more "active" than most of those in the states, yet STILL completely ineffective in terms of new people coming to the Father.
The same disconnect found in the traditional church also seems to exist in the simple church community... so we are praying that those independent endeavors would come to an end in favor of a unified vision and purpose for the DISCIPLESHIP movement in the city.
Personally, we're just "taking the spiritual / religious temperature" of the city for now - trying to find the "area of peace" (demographically speaking) where we can begin to work as the Father leads.
Not sure what else to say for now... would love a quick 30 second prayer for the city of Christchurch. God has promised to make this land fertile again (he woke us in the middle of the night a few weeks back to say that He is going to "bring rain" and make the soil produce once again) - so just ask the Lord of the harvest to strike the baren fields and make them grow!
I really appreciate each of you on here and really enjoy reading your insights!! Such a blessing!!
For the King and the Kingdom!
Noah
Interestingly enough, I am working on the same question right now. And to be fair it is a great question to ask. So much is written about discipleship and so little actually reflect Jesus's way of discipleship. So far, the closest description I have found is the book "Master Plan of Evangelism" by R. E. Coleman. He looks at the discipleship as a process. The eight steps that he identified are: selection, association, consecration, impartation, demonstration, delegation, supervision, reproduction. One step that I am processing right now is the first one - selection. There is an aspect of "calling to, summoning" (Gr.) a group of people, which implies _selected_ his disciples like he had a bigger pool to draw from and he had a selection principle in mind.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, Coleman's work is the closest to what Jesus was doing that I found so far. There is still much work to do.
This sounds like something we might benefit from discussing together quite widely. I have a few comments on the first one, selection.
ReplyDeleteJesus was often referred to by the twelve as Rabbi, Teacher, or Master. I believe they saw him in this way because they were familiar with the Rabbi/Disciple principle.
The Pharisees had disciples too, Saul (later Paul) was a disciple of Gamaliel. All young boys were taught by the local rabbi, at first to read and write Hebrew, later to study the entire Law and the Prophets (our 'Old Testament').
Good pupils were invited to become disciples by the standard phrase, 'Come, follow me'. And that is the form Jesus used when he spoke to the young fishermen on the shore of Galilee.
But consider those young men, why were they fishing? It was because they had not been chosen by a rabbi to become disciples, these guys were the rejects. So when Jesus calls them they drop everything and fall over themselves to follow him. It was an opportunity not to be missed!
Jesus chooses rejects. Why? It's because the best students are not necessarily the ones he wants. Bookwork is not what it's about. He is looking for great hearts, not great minds. He wants those who can love, not those who can think. He is not planning to raise up learned followers like the other rabbis, he plans to raise up people who will follow him in loving, touching lives, healing, comforting, and encouraging.
After the crucifixion the disciples go back to fishing - they have no idea what else to do and have not yet received the Spirit. So when Jesus speaks to Peter on the shore he says, 'Do you love me more than these?' I think he means the fish, the 'making a living by fishing' which is what he called them out of. He doesn't want people who will make a living, he wants people who will allow him to live in and through them.
When Peter answers him Jesus says, 'Feed my sheep.' This is very significant. A shepherd in those days led the sheep and the sheep followed. The shepherd's main task was to lead the sheep to the gulleys and dried river beds where there were leaves to eat and water to drink. His other role was to protect them from wild animals and from sheep stealers.
'Feed my sheep' means lead them to the place where they will have food, water, and safety. Peter was called (among other things) to be a shepherd, following the example Jesus had already set for him. That is what disciples do, follow the Master and learn from him.
Perhaps the selection process involves finding people who will love the sheep. Could it be that simple? If we are able to love one another we are good discipleship material. Jesus 'knew what was in a man', he recognised love. I think he wants us to do the same in our choosing.
Noah,
ReplyDeleteAs I read your report on your early days in your new city, I thought, "Noah is certainly the right man for the job of helping to bring unity in the midst of disunity. From your time in our Denver MRT I know the passion you have for this as well as your gentle way of inviting people into it."
"Lord, today I pray that you will give Noah a resident of the city who shares the same vision that he has. Someone to share with. Someone to pray with. Heal old hurts between believers in that city. Show people the value of deep connections and of loving one another. May Phil. 2 begin to characterize the city of Christ Church."