Here are my answers to the questions I posed yesterday. These answers represent a radical paradigm shift from my early training as a Christian. See what you think.What was Jesus' "discipleship program"? One day I saw something that seems so obvious now. Jesus didn't have a discipleship manual. Everyone I knew had a discipleship manual with steps and chapters and assignments. Not Jesus. And, He really didn't have a discipleship program or curriculum in the way we think about it.
What He had was a relationship. Jesus' "program" was a relationship. An intimate, daily, conversational relationship with His Father. And, everything (really! everything) flowed out of that relationship. Everything Jesus did was what He saw His Father doing. Everything Jesus said was what He heard His Father saying. See Jn. 5:19-20; 8:28-29; 12:49-50; 14:10-11; 15:15.
How did he know what to teach His disciples? See the answer above. He didn't consult a manual. He didn't try and figure out what they needed next ("I don't do anything on my own initiative.") Instead, I believe, in every case He talked it over with His Dad. "What do you want to do next with this one?"
What was He discipling them into? He was discipling them into the same relationship with the Father that He had. This is the monumental significance of John 16. Jesus: "It is good for you that I am going away." (v. 7) Why? Because the Spirit of truth (the paraklete), who speaks only what he hears, will guide you (the word means to lead down a path) into all truth (v. 13). In other words, the Spirit will enable you to live the same way I have lived.
So, we could say that our entire discipleship "program" can be expressed in nine words: Listen, obey and teach others to do the same."
Does any of this relate to CO2s? Absolutely! Because CO2s make hearing God the "prime directive". From this conversational relationship everything else flows in a very natural way. This is the source or wellspring for all discipleship. I'll say more about the implications of this tomorrow.
Your thoughts?
John
I'm first again (breakfast time in the UK, probably past bedtime on the US West Coast :-) I have a three-word comment on what John wrote today.
ReplyDeleteYes! And Amen!
John,
ReplyDeleteI see where you are going but think that the word "relationship" may be deceiving for some. I agree that this word describes initials time of Jesus with his disciples. And yet Jesus did much more than that. As you said, relationship was foundation for everything else but it surely does not encapsulate everything. Jesus had a certain type of relationship with his group, the one that overflown existing relationship into the lives of other people. So, it is, as you put it - personal ("listen"), practical ("obey"), and outgoing ("teach others"). To say that it was just relationship in traditional or contemporary meaning would be exaggeration. It was a certain type of relationship that consisted of certain stages and served as a foundation for certain outcomes. Those outcomes were no less important than relationship and deserve their own mentioning.
I agree that much has been made too complex. I do not think that shifting the pendulum to the other direction - oversimplification - would solve. Jesus' teaching has always been deep and able to separate things inside people's souls.
Thinking deeply about moving from curriculum to holistic listening...
ReplyDeleteSeveral of us in Chicago have been studying neurobiology, learning the vast mystery of the brain. Our teacher has been several books and documentaries on the subject, supplemented by a PhD in Clinical Psychology, and an MDiv who are showing us some amazing things about the brain and listening prayer.
Apparently, a lot of research can be summed up in saying "Your brain works best in community." Many times we don't even realize the connections our brain is making until we cross hemispheres to use the verbal side of our brain to speak about what we're considering to another person.
Is this not central to prayer and to discipleship? If we stick it alone in our listening relationship with God, we only use half our brains.
We've been including VIRKLER into CO2s and LTGs here in Chicago, along with Immanuel Healing Prayer as a way to hear God's voice, and speak with people we trust about what we hear. Not only does that cultivate life transforming relationships, but it helps put sound to the whispers of God in our hearts - it puts our whole heart and WHOLE brain into gear, and gets it out there into the real world conversation I'm having with my friend.
Our shared desire to center our life on relationship with God following Jesus and helping others do the same makes this a great discussion.
ReplyDeleteOn the one hand, discipleship is super simple...and yet very multifaceted and complex. I see it like parenting.
Some important elements that come to my mind: Trying to live a centered life in the sight/presence of others over a long stretch of time. Starting where people are now and walking with them towards Jesus. Knowing and living as if I know that I am not their answer--that Jesus is their answer. Togetherness in our listening, obedience and debriefing. A long-term, big picture vision knowing that growth often takes much time. The value of experience--encouraging others to get hands dirty trying obedience and ministry out. Playing and eating together. Working together. Doing life together with God in the middle of it all. Lots of encouragement and redirecting back to God's voice.
I'm encouraged by so many good comments by folks who are in the thick kingdom life!
Eastern European Missionary mentions outcomes and that those deserve attention too.
ReplyDeleteBut the outcomes change from person to person, place to place, and time to time. There is no 'one size fits all' about the work that Jesus does in his people. Isn't it true to say that discipleship will be different for each of us?
Perhaps the only thing that is constant is that the outcomes are the result of relationship. It's living in Christ's presence that changes people and disciples them. Might we say that relationship is fundamental and the outcomes are secondary?
I liked Mark's point about our brains working better in community, The idea of how we develop and strengthen (or weaken) our thoughts. In Isaiah God says "Come let us reason together" he could easily say this is this and that is that but he doesn't. Is it because he knows that through the process of conversation the bonds of ideas are given a greater foundation.
ReplyDeleteSo many good comments!
ReplyDeleteMark: I'm also interested in neurobiology. Are you familiar with John Ratey ("Spark: The Revolutionalry New Science of Exercise and the Brain") and Jeffery Schwartz ("The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force")? I would love to hear more of what you are learning about how this relates to listening prayer.
Chadd said: "On the one hand, discipleship is super simple...and yet very multifaceted and complex. I see it like parenting."
JW: Yes, Chadd! Exactly. After three years of "making disciples", Jesus said: "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father" (Jn. 14) Discipling = parenting. The relationship between the parent and the child is the source or starting point for the specifics of discipling.
Chris: "Might we say that relationship is fundamental and the outcomes are secondary?"
JW: Or, maybe, the outcomes are a natural by-product. The outcomes are important but not what we focus on. Isn't this Jn. 15:5? "If you abide in me you will bear much fruit." We are never told to focus on the fruit. The fruit will come if we focus on staying connected to the vine.
John White wrote 'Or, maybe, the outcomes are a natural by-product.'
ReplyDeleteThanks John, that says it much better.